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"Empty your Backpack" - Interview with Sam Demma

We interview best-selling author, co-founder of the volunteer organization PickWaste and two time TEDx speaker about his latest book "Empty your Backpack", behind the chapters and advice to youth who face creative challenges.


Interviewer: Chidimma Aliozor

Transcriber: Emmaline Anderson


About the Book

A transcription of the interview alongside the audio will be available on our blog.


Q: Where can we find your “Empty Backpack” poem?


A: If you go on YouTube and you search “empty your backpack animation,” you will find it there. So yeah, that’ll be the best place to find the poem, if you just go “empty your backpack animation” or “empty your backpack – Sam Demma” you’ll find the poem.


Q: Throughout your platform, you’ve incorporated symbols of the red backpack, but interestingly, it’s often pictured upside down. What’s the symbolism behind that design choice?

I wanted to start a conversation, with students, especially with a giant backpack itself at some point, usually in every single speech or school, students would ask me “why is it upside down?” and it gives me an opportunity to share and what I want them to.


The reason the backpack is upside down, when I want people to take away from it, is to live life in a way that if someone places something on you, an opinion, a thought, a negative belief, I wanted to slip off your back like books in an open upside down backpack.


The backpack is upside down to symbolize independence and self belief and not clinging-on or hanging-on to other peoples negative thoughts, opinions, or words. That’s why the backpack is upside down and that’s the symbolism behind it.

 
Q: In Empty Your Backpack, you explained how you were able to obtain Dr. Ivan Joseph as a speaker for your podcast, The High Performing Student. In this case, it was your unwillingness to accept no as an answer that led to your success.

Later, you wrote about how you wanted to collaborate with Charlie Rocket and that you attempted to do so by mailing him a pizza box. In this case, they said no to the collaboration, despite your creativity, but you accepted this no. You state, “... letting go can be just as important as persisting.

How can one distinguish a firm no from a changeable no? What separates persistence from pushiness?


I think firm “no’s” only happen in relation to people's boundaries. I decided to stop after Charlie rock said no. I could’ve continued getting creative and continued pursuing this with different ideas, so in the context of business, I don’t think there’s ever a firm no, that’s just a personal belief, so that would be my answer to that question.


I don’t think there’s ever a firm no in business. I think they are only firm “no’s” when it comes to people's personal boundaries and relationships or other areas of our lives. What separates persistence from pushing is providing value, you know I sent Charlie rocket a box filled with 61 or 62 pages of notes on his podcast, cover the box with his face.


Make sure that if you are persisting, you do so in a valuable way or else it’ll come across as being really pushy, so follow up persist, but make sure you provide value.

 
Q: One of the most crucial parts in your attempt to get the attention of Charlie Rocket was to find out his mailing address so that you could mail the pizza box to him. To do so, you decided to reach out to the co-founder and interview him for your podcast.

After the interview, you told him your plan and asked for the mailing address, which he then gave to you. You emphasize the importance of not “using people as a step in your strategy,” but my question for you is how did you follow your own advice in your interaction with the co-founder?


Where, in your opinion, is the line between using people and not using people drawn?


I think what’s really important to understand when you know strategizing and coming up with creative ways to reach people is that people are the individuals who open opportunities. You know how everyone says, “when one door closes, another door opens?”- what people often don’t say is that well there’s another human being that has to open that door for you.


So I approach things with a genuine interest of building relationships and so although I knew and had to goal in the back of my mind of getting the mailing address, I was detached to the outcome personally, and I had genuine interest in my heart to get to know this individual and that’s something I can’t teach to someone else, it’s not something I can tell to somebody else - they have to genuinely feel it in their heart. But at the end of the day people are always apart of your strategy, there has to be customers for a business to operate, there has to be other human beings opening doors for you.


So, I think the line is drawn based on how you feel genuinely deep down in your heart. When you approach people, when you ask for things, I think it’s also important that if you are going to make a request from somebody that you provide them with value first. I think that’s really important - just doing something like a podcast, giving someone else a platform, was a great way to do that so I think line is drawn based on how you genuinely feel in your heart and whether or not you were providing that person value and have the interest in building a relationship with them or if you’re just using them. I think that’s where the line is drawn.

 

Q: In the book, you state that, ironically, you were not a fan of books or writing in high school, yet now you’ve written and published an entire book. How do you think your younger self would react if he saw you now?


My younger self would lose his mind. I hated reading. I’d have never read books. I think my younger self would be very proud of the person I become, and it would be really cool if I could travel back in time and have a conversation with them so that’s a great question. I appreciate you sharing that.

 
Q: You mention in Empty Your Backpack that you struggled with depression after being sidelined from soccer due to your injury. However, you also mention that you weren’t officially diagnosed.

Did the lack of a diagnosis ever cause you to doubt the validity of your struggles? Additionally, knowing that depression is a very sensitive topic and that its severity is often understated, how did you come to the decision to include your struggles with it in this book? Have you since been diagnosed with depression? Do you continue to struggle with it today?


So, I struggled a lot during that period of my life. I unfollowed all my teammates because seeing them online made me sick to my stomach. I had two years of feeling worthless as a human being. I never doubted the validity of my struggles although I wasn’t depressed because I knew how I was feeling personally. Maybe using the word depression in the book was not the best choice though.


Also knowing depression is a very sensitive topic and severity is often understated. How did you come to the decision to include your struggles within this book?

I wanted to let people know how much I was struggling personally, so that they knew that it was OK if they aren’t feeling OK. I think it’s really important that people know they’re not alone and hearing about somebody else's struggle will make somebody else feel a little bit better about their personal challenges.


Have you since been diagnosed?

No, I have not since been diagnosed. I still have low moments but not anything that compares to what I went through when I was in high school.

 
Q: Indisputably, you offer very sound advice throughout the book, much of which is highlighted by a success of yours. In some occasions, however, you use less successful experiences to illustrate a point—experiences that can be perceived as failures. For instance, in Chapter 9, readers are encouraged to creatively act on their dreams.

Within this chapter, you wrote about your effort to have KidSuper collaborate with you on a design for the “Empty Backpack.” Though you did so creatively and caught his attention, you didn’t end up collaborating with him. Do you think that you undermine your point by using these sort of failures?


Absolutely not. Maybe from the perspective of the reader, but I think it’s really important to understand and maybe it’s something I should’ve shared in this chapter is that we get to choose what success is and for me with experiences and situations, like the kids super pitch.


Sometimes success is just having a conversation with the individual especially when they’re one of the world's most famous designers right now and every A-list celebrity wears their clothing. Getting in touch with the person in of itself in my opinion, is a huge success


The other reason why I don’t think it undermines the point by using these sorts of examples or failures is that I want people to kind of see the full picture and understand that not every single creative pursuit they embark on, not every single pitch they provide, is going to land them a home run.


I think it actually makes me appear a little bit more human than someone who just shares success after success after success. I don’t think it undermines the point by using these sorts of failures, I think it humanizes me and reminds other people that it’s OK if they get” no’s” or rejections or don’t succeed in the way they initially thought they might.

 
Q: The final chapter in Empty Your Backpack tells readers to cultivate tunnel vision. As most people understand it, tunnel vision is a bad thing: it’s a total lack of (metaphorical) peripheral vision that narrows one’s field of vision to a few, limited perspectives.

What do you mean when you speak about tunnel vision?


For me in that chapter tunnel vision is all about eliminating distractions. It’s all about locking in on a goal and remaining focussed in its pursuit. It has less to do with like limiting other people's perspectives and more to do with eliminating the distractions that are stopping you from focussing.


I think one of the reasons why so many of us struggle with making progress in our lives is because we lack focus to do, you know we sit down to do something and five minutes into doing it we’re already browsing social media or watching a YouTube video and then 40 minutes pass by and we wonder why we made no progress so tunnel vision is the last chapter is all about eliminating distractions, locking in and focussing and moving forward.

 

About Career and Speaking Advice


1. What advice would you offer for people overcoming a fear of public speaking?

Practice, practice, practice. In my personal opinion, one of the most effective ways to overcome a fear of any activity, is to do the activity repeatedly. This does not mean you need to stand in front of 1000 people and deliver a 60-minute keynote speech the first time you decide to speak.


But, it does mean you need to start intentionally creating opportunities to practice your public speaking. When I decided I wanted to become a professional speaker, I joined a public speaking group called 'Toastmasters'. You can find a club near your house here (https://www.toastmasters.org/find-a-club). This inexpensive public speaking group provided a safe and supportive environment of 15-20 people where I could practice my speeches EVERY WEEK.


For two years I sharpened my public speaking skills at Toastmasters. Even if you can't join a group like this, start creating your own opportunities to practice, because only through repetition will you build confidence in the skill and overcome your fear.


2. What was your journey like in becoming a motivational speaker?

My speaking journey began in grade 12 after a friend and I realized we needed more volunteers for our social enterprise, PickWaste. I walked into our High School principal's office and asked to speak for 2-3 minutes at the end of our monthly assembly. I was nervous, but knew that it would help us recruit volunteers. After delivering that first speech, I knew I wanted to do it again.


So, I started emailing principals and asking them the same question I asked mine. After doing about 20-30 talks at local schools, a principal handed me an honorarium. He said I was really captivated and should consider motivational speaking as a career. I had no idea this was a career path! Excited, I went home, searched "youth speaker" on Google and called everyone on the first five pages. Those initial phone calls provided insight into which courses to purchase, books to read and people to meet.


From that moment, everything started to unfold, although it all started with that first speech at my own High School. Something to keep in mind is that everyone's journey is very different. If your journey doesn't look like mine, don't panic. Instead, smile knowing that you're on a unique, 1-of-1 journey, and that is something to be excited about.


3. What were your inspirations for your novel, “Empty Your Backpack?”

The main inspiration was a conversation with a grade 10 student who was struggling with their mental health. When having a conversation with this student, it seemed like many of their challenges were related to things they could not control: life circumstances, other people's actions and words, and unhealthy expectations that other people and society fed him about life and success.


Reflecting on how many millions of students likely suffer from the same negative thoughts, I wanted to be of service and write a book that I believe would help shift their mindsets. The second main inspiration was my own journey pursuing a dream society often deems 'unrealistic' and how the mindset shifts and actions in the book helped me along my own journey.


The book draws on my own personal experiences and it is one of the things I am currently most proud to have completed. You can download the ebook edition of the book for free at: https://emptyyourbackpack.ca/



4. What was the process of writing and publishing the novel like for you?

Messy. It took me about 18 months and thousands of revisions before reaching the final version of the book. Writing at home didn't work for me, so I made the local Starbucks my laboratory 3-4 times a week, and would often spend chucks of time on weekends writing. When beginning this journey, I had little experience with writing–aside from High School–and no knowledge about the process of publishing.


When starting something new, one of the biggest cheat codes is to find someone who has already done what you seek and ask them how they did it. I sent a cold email to an author by the name of Kent Healy. He had written multiple self-help books aimed at students and thankfully he agreed to set up a call and answered all my questions. This one 90-minute call shortened my learning curve dramatically.


Aside from this call, I followed the step-by-step instructions of a free online course that was incredibly valuable at uncovering the writing and publishing process. You can check out that resource here: https://bookschool.scribemedia.com/


5. What advice do you have for emerging young writers?

Like anything in life, there is a process that if followed will help you reach your final destination. Don't allow your fear of the unknown to stop you from starting and searching. Your life experiences are 1-of-1, so don't discount your unique perspectives and personal stories.


After developing the confidence to put pen to paper, begin building the daily habit of writing. Whether that is journaling, creating short stories, blogging or freelance writing, find an outlet where you can practice sharing your thoughts while strengthening your writing muscles.


If you need accountability to keep you on track, tell a close friend or family member who can check in with you weekly to ensure you're following through on your new commitment. All in all, be patient with yourself, have fun, and realize you have value to provide the world. If you think I can be valuable, don't hesitate to reach out.


You can reach me through email at info@samdemma.com.

 

CONTACT SAM


Official Website: https://samdemma.com


Check out these projects with Sam:


Co-founded organization PickWaste: https://pickwaste.com


Interview with Youth Initiative Durham: https://www.instagram.com/reel/CpOSaNAgoMA/



















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